Legislature(2001 - 2002)
01/30/2001 01:35 PM Senate TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
JOINT MEETING
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
SENATE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
January 30, 2001
1:35 p.m.
HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Vic Kohring, Chair
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Scott Ogan
Representative Drew Scalzi
Representative Peggy Wilson
Representative Mary Kapsner
Representative Albert Kookesh
SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator John Cowdery, Chair
Senator Jerry Ward, Vice Chair
Senator Robin Taylor
Senator Gary Wilken
SENATE MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Kim Elton
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
DOT OVERVIEW BY COMMISSIONER PERKINS
PREVIOUS ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
JOE PERKINS, Commissioner
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented an overview of DOT&PF.
TOM [BRIGHAM], Director
Division of Statewide Planning
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information.
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information.
KURT PARKAN, Deputy Commissioner
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided additional information.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 01-7, SIDE A [House TRA tape]
Number 001
CHAIR JOHN COWDERY called the joint meeting of the House and
Senate Transportation Committees to order at 1:35 p.m.
Representatives Kohring, Masek, Ogan, Scalzi, Wilson, Kapsner,
and Kookesh and Senators Cowdery, Ward, Taylor, and Wilken were
present.
DOT OVERVIEW BY COMMISSIONER PERKINS
Number 0357
JOE PERKINS, Commissioner, Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities (DOT&PF), provided the committee with an outline of
what the overview, slide presentation, would cover.
Commissioner Perkins began by informing the committee of the
following awards won by DOT&PF:
Barrow DOT&PF staff won the Balchen Post Award For
Snow Removal at a Small Hub Airport, a national award.
The Anchorage International Airport won the Balchen
Post Award for Large Airports for a second year.
The Northern Region Office won the Historic
Preservation Award for work on Kuskalana Bridge.
In the state competition, Shari Howard of the Northern
Regions won the Good Neighbor Award for Material Site
Management involving Department of Natural Resources
(DNR) lands.
John Horn and Steve Horn of the Central Region won the
Anchorage Beautification Award for work at the
Raspberry and Jewell Lake intersection.
The Whittier Tunnel Project has won seven prestigious
state and national awards.
The Southeast Region Chilkat Bald Eagle Preserve was
chosen by the American Association of State Highway
and Transportation Officials (AASHTO) as one of the
five Best Enhancement Projects in the United States.
The Seward Highway received All-American Road Status.
Tom Moses received AASHTO's President's Award for
Highways, the highest highway engineering award in the
nation.
Commissioner Perkins serves as the President of the
Western Association of State Highway and
Transportation Officials (WASHTO), Chairman of the
AASHTO Standing Committee on Highways, and one of the
two U.S. voting members on the International Road
Congress.
[The department] won the 2002 AASHTO annual meeting
for Anchorage.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS then turned to the customer satisfaction
survey. As a part of the department's public participation
program for the federal government, DOT&PF had a survey done two
years ago regarding what people do and do not like. The same
questions were asked this year. Some 1,212 people were
contacted statewide. In 1998 51 percent of those polled felt
that their area was treated fairly in transportation dollars.
That percentage has risen to 59 percent. The percent satisfied
with the overall condition of the roads and highways has risen
from 52 percent to 69 percent. Of those who use rural airports,
their overall satisfaction with the condition of those airports
rose from 68 percent to 87 percent. Of those who ride the
ferries once a year, their satisfaction rose from 67 percent to
78 percent. There was an increase in the satisfaction of the
condition of bicycle and walking trails, among those who use
bicycle and walking trails.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS then addressed the areas of concern that
the customer satisfaction survey found. He began by pointing
out that only 7 percent of Alaskans have every participated in a
DOT&PF planning process, which means that only 7 percent of
Alaskans provide input into the highway work done by the
department. Commissioner Perkins said, "And that is not good."
Furthermore, only 18 percent of Alaskans have knowledge of the
Statewide Transportation Improvement Plan (STIP). Moreover,
only 21 percent of Alaskans were aware of the department's
regional planning efforts. Commissioner Perkins said that the
department views the aforementioned as problem areas for which
it intends to improve.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS, in response to Senator Ward, said that he
would provide the survey to those interested. Commissioner
Perkins noted that the survey is also broken down by region,
although that is too lengthy to review in this timeframe.
Number 0805
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued the overview with a discussion of
Alaska's highways and what has been done and what is left to do
on them. He specified that the Alaska Highway basically runs
from Delta Junction to the Canadian border. He said that what
the department is reviewing is whether these roads are meeting
National Highway standards. National Highway standards relate
to whether the road has grade, width, alignment, and whether the
shoulders are wide enough. With the completion of the project
at Gerstle River, the Alaska Highway is up to grade and
alignment. However, there will be things such as permafrost
heaves and repavement that will have to be addressed as they
arise.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS moved on to the Steese, Elliot, and Dalton
Highways where the department has concentrated its efforts. The
Dalton Highway is requiring considerable rebuild and it is being
paved with high float asphalt. Within the next couple of
months, a contract will go out to bid for the portion of the
highway to Livengood. Close to 40 percent of the Dalton Highway
will be paved within the next year. Dramatic strides are being
made with the Dalton Highway due to a $30 million appropriation
from U.S. Senator Stevens, which didn't require state matching
funds. The department will continue to concentrate on the
Dalton Highway in order to pave the Dalton Highway all the way
to Deadhorse. Commissioner Perkins pointed out that the oil
companies like the [paved roads] and thus have about 30-40 miles
paved in Prudhoe. [The oil companies] are paving at a rate of
about 10-12 miles of road a year. This paving eliminates a dust
problem and saves the base course aggregate.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS, in response to Senator Wilken, explained
that the department is working on the worst parts of the Dalton
Highway first. Commissioner Perkins informed the committee that
once the Dalton Highway is paved there will be less people on
graders. Furthermore, after it is paved, the department can do
work on the ditches and culverts; work that it's not doing now.
CHAIR COWDERY asked how big a contract was let on that.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS answered that there were about five
different contracts, which were about 30 miles a contract. One
contract has already been finished. Those contracts average
anywhere from $10-$20 million a contract. In further response
to Chair Cowdery, he confirmed that everything is private
sector, including some of the designs. In response to
Representative Ogan, Commissioner Perkins explained that the
pavement being used is high float pavement, which seems to be so
flexible that not many cracks occur and thus it doesn't seem
necessary to crack seal. He pointed out that most of the
Canadian roads are paved with high float pavement.
Number 1115
COMMISSIONER PERKINS turned to the Parks Highway, which is up to
grade all the way to Fairbanks, excluding a piece to Willow.
Within the next two weeks, a $20 million section from White
Crossing to the Susitna River will be put out and under
construction this year. Then the work will gradually move
north. He informed the committee that the first section of the
Glenn Highway into Wasilla has been expanded to four lanes.
Next year a second section will be done to expand the road to
four lanes and create some interchanges. Therefore, there will
continue to be much work on the Parks Highway in the Wasilla
area. Additionally, the department received $50 million in
federal funds, with no match required, for the intersection of
the Glenn and Parks Highways. Commissioner Perkins announced
his intention to have that design-construct project started next
summer. He noted that the railroad crossing on the Glenn
Highway will be eliminated.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that some rehabilitation work will be
done up north. Outside of Fairbanks there is a terrible problem
where the miner dug a hole that has resulted in deep cracks.
Some stabilization of that will be attempted this summer. The
concern is that if the road isn't stabilized, then the road will
be lost to this mining pit. Although one solution may be
filling the entire hole, the underlying permafrost will have
been disturbed, which will be expensive to keep fixed for the
next 10-15 years.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS turned attention to the Glenn Highway,
which is the main line for Anchorage north. Many projects have
been done at Peanuckle Hill (ph). He informed the committee
that from Gunsight Mountain to Glennallen, the road is up to
standard. Between Anchorage and Palmer the road is in good
shape. However, from Palmer towards Sutton there is the Moose
Creek section that needs work. Furthermore, the Caribou Creek
project, a $40 million project, will be out for bid this August
or September. The Caribou Creek project will deal with the
worst bridge in the state. He clarified that the department is
within four contracts of having the Glenn Highway finished after
awarding Caribou Creek. The last project will be the Long Lake
project.
Number 1468
COMMISSIONER PERKINS moved on to the Haines Highway. The
portion of the highway from Haines to the border needs shoulder
work, which is less of a priority. However, there were two
major contracts in Haines one of which was completed last year.
He mentioned that on the road to the Haines ferry terminal there
is a large rock that the department is trying to determine how
best to deal with. The possibility of blasting is limited
because there is a subdivision on the top of the hill. Although
the road is not in bad shape, it will have to be reconstructed
to [meet National Highway standards].
COMMISSIONER PERKINS turned to the Richardson Highway. Much
effort has been put forth from Valdez to Glennallen, which is
practically finished. From Glennallen to Big Delta is the
department's last priority as far as National Highway System
(NHS) routes. Once more of the NHS projects are finished, more
work will be concentrated on the Richardson Highway. This year
there will be a project that repairs the stretch between
Glennallen and Gulkana, a $6-$7 million job. Although a piece
by Paxton is finished, there is a bad portion from Sourdough to
Paxton. This area is problematic because the permafrost sits at
about 31.5 degrees.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued with one of the roads that it is
really proud of, the Seward Highway. The road is "up to snuff"
from Anchorage down where the Sterling Highway goes into the
peninsula. There is a 0-8 mile portion in Seward that will be
built next year. There are about three contracts left for the
Seward Highway to be completed. However, the department is
reviewing adding a third passing lane between Anchorage and
Girdwood. This road probably has one of the highest traffic
volumes in the Anchorage area. Commissioner Perkins projected
that something would be up for construction on that road in
about three years.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS moved on to the Sterling Highway and the
Kenai Spur Highway. This last year, the piece of the Sterling
Highway by Cooper Landing was finished. However, the portion
through Cooper Landing is not done and will be a large job. For
this portion the options are to keep the road where it is and
have seven crossings, bridges, over the Kenai River or to move
the road up the hill where there will be no crossings.
Currently, the department is in the middle of an Environmental
Impact Statement (EIS) and so far the choice has been to move
the road up the hill so that it doesn't cross the Kenai River.
Commissioner Perkins projected that this project would be a $50
million project that is probably four to five years from being
started. The remainder of the road to Homer is complete. The
Kenai Spur Highway from Kenai to Nikiski needs work and there is
a project for that.
Number 1680
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if the road through Cooper Landing is
moved up the hill, would the road with the seven crossings
remain.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied yes and specified that it would
merely be a local service road.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN inquired as to the driving decision to move
the road to the hill.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that the concern is [the
possibility of] a fuel tanker going into the Kenai River. He
charged that it is only a matter of time before such happens.
In response to Senator Ward, Commissioner Perkins said that
archeology is also playing a role in this decision because
Native Alaskans live in the valley next to the stream where the
road exists. In further response to Senator Ward, Commissioner
Perkins wasn't sure of the cost difference between the $50
million and upgrading the existing the road. He noted that the
EIS is still being worked on and there will be public hearings
on this. Commissioner Perkins pointed out that a 55 mph route
cannot be built through a town.
SENATOR WARD said, "We'll have to look at it from a public
policy of whether it makes any sense or not. Just because you
thought of it, that doesn't necessarily mean we want to spend
$50 million to avoid somebody going 10 miles an hour less."
COMMISSIONER PERKINS remarked that those are decisions that are
made on any road and there is a public process. Furthermore,
one must think about 20 years into the future.
SENATOR WARD commented [on the need to consider] that 10 miles
an hour less would save $50 million. Senator Ward inquired as
to the timeframe for the completion of the Nikiski extension
that is proposed.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS estimated that it would be about three or
four years out before it's done.
SENATOR WARD recalled that the contract went out this summer to
be completed in October.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that he wasn't sure and thus he
offered to check on that. However, Commissioner Perkins related
his belief that the Nikiski extension is a two-part project in
which the road will be rehabilitated and then there will be a
big job.
TOM [BRIGHAM], Director, Division of Statewide Planning,
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, related his
understanding that the "near" part of the Nikiski extension
should be completed fairly soon, but the portion farther out
will be completed in two to three years.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued with the Tok cutoff and informed
the committee that there are two project left to do at the Tok
cutoff. The Chistochina section will be under contract this
year and the other section is four to five years out. He
remarked that the Tok cutoff is the worst road in the state, an
enormous amount of money is spent to keep this road level and
smooth. However, he felt that currently the road is in the best
shape it has been in many years. Currently, there is a
maintenance program that grinds up all the hot mix asphalt and
replaces it with chip seals and high float [pavement], which he
believes is working well.
Number 1846
COMMISSIONER PERKINS turned to railroad crossings. He informed
the committee that it has been a departmental priority to
eliminate at grade railroad crossings on the National Highway
System. Slides illustrating those railroad crossings left to do
on the Parks Highway, and Seward Highway were shown. In
response to Representative Wilson, Commissioner Perkins
explained that at grade railroad crossings are those crossings
where the railroad and the road cross. A grade separated
railroad crossing has either the road or the railroad crossing
elevated and thus there is no intersection between the two. He
pointed out that the desire to eliminate at grade railroad
crossings is a national program.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS then addressed the gravel paving program in
the Central Region. In 1998 there were 377 centerline miles of
gravel roads. That has been reduced to 234 centerline miles of
gravel roads. Therefore, about 140 miles of gravel roads have
been paved in the Central Region. Many of those roads were in
the Mat-Su and the Kenai. In response to Senator Ward,
Commissioner Perkins said that he could provide a list of the
roads paved in the Kenai. He specified that the road going to
the state park on the Kenai River was paved. In response to
Senator Taylor, Commissioner Perkins confirmed that the Funny
River road had been paved. In response to Chair Cowdery,
Commissioner Perkins said that he is including the whole Kenai
peninsula. Commissioner Perkins clarified that the department
is not paving anything that isn't a state highway.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS moved on to the gravel roads in the
Northern Region where there were 1,988 gravel roads in 1998.
Although the number of gravel roads in the Northern Region has
been reduced by about 135, much work remains. Of the 1,858
miles of gravel road left, there is about 400-500 miles of road
that will never be paved. He explained that these are basically
mining roads that receive almost no traffic. These roads are
usually graded once a year.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued with the gravel roads in the
Southeast Region. The total number of gravel roads in the
Southeast Region in 1998 was 109, which has been reduced to
about 99 roads. He related his belief that Juneau and Wrangell
are complete. As far as the state highways are concerned,
Southeast is close to being paved.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS then turned his attention to rural
airports. He informed the committee that last year an AIR-21
passed, which about doubles [DOT&PF's] program for the Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) for the upcoming year. By the
time all the discretionary funds from the FAA are received, he
estimated that [the state] will receive $140-$150 million. This
increase will allow the department to do more with the aviation
program. Commissioner Perkins then reviewed slides that
highlighted the following: airports that were standard, those
airports that met minimum requirements, before 1995; airports
that became standard between 1995 and 2000, and airports that
the department is planning to bring up to standard between 2001
and 2006. He explained that the [airport improvement] program
calls for additional lighting at many of the runways, which
amounts to about $100 million. There are also many airports
that need to be lengthened; the goal is to lengthen all airports
to 33 feet.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS moved on to the DOT Area Plans. He
explained that the regional transportation plans look at 5-20
year horizons and review the policies and projects while also
reviewing all modes [of transportation]. The plan is driven by
problems and needs. The regional transportation plan analyzes
the tradeoffs and impacts of investment choices, identifies
financing options for the region, [encourages] community
participation, and [determines] where to best make major
transportation investments. Southeast's plan is complete and in
the implementation stage. The Prince William Sound/Copper River
and the Yukon-Kuskokwim plans are in draft and the Southwest
plan is almost in draft. The Northwest-Arctic plan, a large
plan, has just been started and probably will need a year before
finalization.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS focused on the Copper River plan. He
emphasized that this plan is still in the public process and
thus could change. Basically, the Copper River plan [found]
that the Copper River Highway is economically less viable than
an improved ferry system. The Copper River plan also found that
more airport planning should be done and that runway lengths
will have to be reviewed. With regard to the ferries, [the plan
suggests] two high-speed ferries; one would run in the winter
and two would run in the summer. The M/V Tustumena would no
longer call in Prince William Sound but would transfer over to
run Kodiak and the chain. Under the Copper River plan, the M/V
Bartlett would be retired entirely. Commissioner Perkins
explained that the high-speed ferries would run clockwise from
Valdez to Whittier to Cordova five days a week, year round.
That ferry's home port would be in Cordova. The second high-
speed ferry would work only in the summer as a back up for the
traffic requirements between Whittier and Valdez. That ferry
would run ten roundtrips weekly and could fill in for other
ferries requiring maintenance. Commissioner Perkins reiterated
that this plan is in draft and thus there are still many public
comments to come. The [year round] high-speed ferry is
scheduled for a federal transit grant and the funding for the
other high-speed ferry looks to be secured. Therefore, after
the first high-speed ferry for Southeast is purchased, then the
second vessel would be for Southcentral.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued with the Southwest Alaska plan.
This plan, too, looked at aviation as a large portion of the
plan. Furthermore, this plan emphasized port development and
roadway intermodal connections, specifically in Williamsport and
Chigniks with port improvements in Homer. He pointed out that
the Tustumena, a full oceangoing vessel, would play a larger
role in Southwest Alaska. He identified the following road
projects in Southwest Alaska: Naknek-S. Naknek road, Iliamna-
Nondalton road, and the Williamsport-Pile Bay road.
Commissioner Perkins remarked that the state has done a poor job
in choosing road corridors that would attempt to preserve
wilderness designations.
TAPE 01-7, SIDE B
COMMISSIONER PERKINS [pointed out that] the Chigniks/Port Heiden
corridor, Cook Inlet/Bristol Bay corridor, and the
Iliamna/Dillingham corridor [have the greatest potential for the
Alaska Peninsula Highway]. He explained that the [Southwest
Alaska plan] will identify these corridors and if people propose
wilderness areas, then [the department] wants to make sure that
the road corridor is in those selections. A slide was shown
that illustrated the selected road links. The Iliamna-Nondalton
road is one of the better projects in the state because it only
needs about a mile of road and a bridge to connect those two
communities, which could, theoretically, use the same high
school and medical facilities and the same airport. The
Aleknagik bridge is a project that would connect Aleknagik
Village with Dillingham. Further out in the plan is the
Chigniks Intertie road.
Number 2299
COMMISSIONER PERKINS turned to the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta plan
that is in draft. Although this plan basically looks at
airports, there are some recommended roads such as the Ruby-
Forman(ph) road system is recommended to be upgraded. There
doesn't seem to be a way to interconnect those roads. In regard
to airfields, the department developed a new way to analyze
airfields. The question for the future is: What kind of
airplanes will be flying on these airfields in 10-20 years?
[The answer] is to look at what is new in the Lower 48 right now
because Alaska is a user of used airplanes, particularly in the
Bush. The hope is to turn out the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta plan,
including all the priorities for the airports and
recommendations for links of airports, on March 30. The final
plan [proposes] to have 3,300-foot runways. However, some hubs
that would need 4,000-foot runways have been identified based on
how bypass mail and goods and services are transferred
throughout the delta.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS informed the committee that the department
is also looking at marking winter trails. The department
already has done about three years of this, particularly in
Northwest Alaska. He explained that tripod markers are
installed for those lost in blizzards between villages. The
department hopes to mark about 1,000 miles of trail over the
next five to eight years. However, the problem is that bears
love to rub on the trail markers and thus the tripod marker has
been utilized to withstand the bear rubbing. Commissioner
Perkins remarked that these markers are absolutely critical in
the winter.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS, in response to Representative Ogan,
explained that these tripod markers are made of wood and stand
about ten feet. He pointed out that the land in Northwest
Alaska is problematic because in the winter it is all white,
there are no distinguishing features.
Number 2146
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued with the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta
plan, which is evaluating a sub-regional port as well as mooring
structures and gravel landing pads [for river barge operations].
Furthermore, the department is also reviewing other methods of
construction, such as one that would utilize sand cement and
other [local] materials. Commissioner Perkins explained that in
the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta there are wetlands, permafrost
[soils], and there is a lack of gravel. Therefore, the expense
of road construction in the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta precludes the
area from being connected to anyone. In his opinion, the Yukon-
Kuskokwim Delta will be dependent upon air transportation for a
long time, especially for the summer months.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN related his understanding that in Bethel the
gravel is barged up river because there is no gravel in Bethel.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS agreed and interjected that since there is
no gravel in Bethel, the department is looking at utilizing a
sand cement, if it works. Using sand cement versus using gravel
would save a lot of money.
Number 2103
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed his fascination with Commissioner
Perkins' opinion that people in the Yuko-Kuskokwim Delta will
remain dependent upon air transportation 10-15 years in the
future. Senator Taylor remarked, "Apparently, that's not just
an opinion, that's a policy decision made by the way you and
your department are implementing the STIP. Can you tell us why
you have now rejected -- for years, there's been concepts of
developing a rail line out into that region, and roads that
would interconnect." Senator Taylor further remarked that most
people don't realize that the legislature has no control over
the STIP because it is controlled by the department. Senator
Taylor said, "I'm curious as to the policy decision made, and by
whom it was made, to not even include in the planning process
anything for these people to ever have any type of hard link,
that they'll always be relying on some charter plane to come in
and get them."
COMMISSIONER PERKINS clarified that he has been discussing the
Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta, where he knew of no plan to connect
Bethel or the area villages to the road system. However,
Northwest Alaska is a different situation, which he will address
now.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER interjected that Representative Rokeberg
has legislation to establish a task force to develop more roads
throughout the state. Although Bethel was on the list of [STIP]
projects, Bethel doesn't really have the industry to support
such a system now. However, she did note that she would like to
see a road from Bethel to the (indisc.) Creek area because there
is the industry to support that. Representative Kapsner pointed
that Dillingham has a road in which 11 spots have road fabric
showing. "We are not even maintaining the roads that we have
now," she charged.
SENATOR TAYLOR remarked, "That's because, if you've just
listened to the commissioner, he's told us about between four
and six hundred million dollars that have gone into improving
the highway in the Railbelt."
SENATOR WARD recalled that in the 1970s there was legislation to
put a road into Bethel.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER reiterated that she didn't know how that
would be possible.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS reiterated that he knows of no plans to
connect Bethel and the Yukon-Kuskokwim Delta area. There are no
natural resources in that area save the fishing industry, which
is about it.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER highlighted the fact that in the winter
the frozen river is plowed [and used for travel]. However, this
year the river didn't even freeze until after January.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS informed the committee that the department
did review a road from Bethel to Napakiak. That road would be
eight miles long and would cost about $35 million. Therefore,
when you review roads to villages that are 50-60 miles or more,
it will be a long time before roads are in the Yukon-Kuskokwim
Delta other than Ruby port.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER remarked that last year she couldn't get
the road to Tundra Ridge, which is a mile out of town, paved.
That road has residents with children that are severely
asthmatic along with a senior [center] home. The area has silt,
which gets into people's lungs and creates respiratory problems.
She pointed out that she couldn't even obtain planning money for
that road.
SENATOR TAYLOR clarified that he was discussing the Northwest
area.
Number 1905
COMMISSIONER PERKINS turned to the Northwest Planning Area,
which he saw as an area that holds much of the future for the
state. He informed the committee that the department is about
six months into the Northwest Area plan. There is an advisory
committee and a consultant has been selected to perform the
resource transportation analysis. There have been three major
meetings with the North Slope Borough and the Northwest Arctic
Borough. Commissioner Perkins explained that this study is
going to be performed in two pieces. The following are the two
major concerns for the area: the inter-region transportation
and the transportation out of the region. The department itself
is reviewing the inter-regional planning and thus reviewing the
airport needs, commodity flows, and inter-village roads.
Additionally, the consultant team is preparing and collecting
all the base data for the mineral and oil/gas locations, port
sites, road or rail corridors, location and phasing in order to
best take advantage of multiple opportunities and public-private
investment opportunities. Commissioner Perkins then returned to
the slide of the Northwest map and pointed out an area that has
the largest deposits of the highest grade of coal in the world;
there are too many mineral opportunities to discuss. The desire
is to attempt to [include] all of these and determine what it
would currently cost to put in a transportation system to move
those materials. He pointed out that the Red Dog Mine has a 50-
mile road that only goes from the mine to the port, where ships
can enter only three or four months of the year. Furthermore,
the ships have to park out about five miles from shore.
Commissioner Perkins explained that the concentrate is hauled
from the Red Dog Mine down a road that has limitations with
regard to how many times it can be used per day due to the dust
requirements for the national park that it goes through. The
concentrate is then stored in large buildings until the ships
arrive. When the ship arrives, the concentrate is placed in a
barge that moves to the ship, where it is loaded. Commissioner
Perkins estimated that probably 60 percent of their costs
involve transportation. Therefore, the study will review the
potential of hooking the mine up or developing a different port
site; all alternatives will be reviewed for moving all
operations, including coal access and the minerals around Nome.
The study [should be complete] in about another year. He
commented that for this to work, all of the people in the area
will have to be [in support] of what is recommended.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that this study will [develop]
projects, one of which will be how to access the mineral
resources that this area has to access. He reiterated that this
area is probably the greatest storehouse that Alaska has.
Commissioner Perkins said, "Without this study, you don't know
what to build up there." Commissioner Perkins noted that the
department is requesting $147.9 million in bonding for the
airport because the airlines would rather fund this with bonds
over cash funds. This is a question of how the users of the
airport pay for the improvements made to the airports. He
commented, "They pay for all of them; we pay for none of them."
He hoped that the legislation would make it through because it
would allow incentives to the airlines in the form of staggered
payments.
SENATOR WARD turned to the [Anchorage International Airport] and
the situation in which Alaska Airlines relocates due to a change
in the terminal. Is the cost of relocation part of the original
fee?
COMMISSIONER PERKINS answered that the cost to relocate the
airlines has been borne by the airlines.
SENATOR WARD asked if that cost has been calculated in the
airlines calculations of the project.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that it's not in the total project
money because it's a cost of doing business to the airline, it's
not a cost to the state.
SENATOR WARD recalled some news articles regarding the airport
project storing steel and experiencing cost overruns and delay
of projects. He also recalled that the last time the deputy
commissioner was present he said that Errors and Omission
Insurance would take care of that. He asked if the state first
has to sue the contractor before the Errors and Omission
Insurance begins.
Number 1582
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that when [the Anchorage
International Airport project] began, the [department] purchased
insurance for everyone rather than require every individual
engineer and contractor to have insurance. By doing so, a
considerable amount of money was saved. He noted that such is
quite common on a large project. Included in the insurance
package was $10 million of Errors and Omissions Insurance.
Basically, Errors and Omissions Insurance covers if an engineer
makes a error that causes delay or increases costs, then that
can be charged against that engineer. At the Anchorage Airport,
there is a designer that did the structural design. In the
process of getting the building permit, the Municipality of
Anchorage (MOA) questioned the adequacy of the structural design
from an earthquake perspective, which returns [the process] to a
structural model that has been nationally developed. That
process took about six months and incurred costs. Commissioner
Perkins pointed out that when the contract was awarded for the
building, only the portion for the foundation was awarded, not
the entire building. Furthermore, the steel had to be purchased
early, which is fairly normal. That purchase was done based on
the early drawings, which MOA has questioned as well as the
steel and the foundations. Commissioner Perkins said that some
of the foundations are poured and are alright. However, some of
the foundations were unfinished and thus the foundation
contractor is being delayed. Furthermore, some of the steel may
have to be modified. [The steel] cannot be put up because MOA
won't give a building permit. Therefore, [the department] is
paying rent. Commissioner Perkins informed the committee that
the cost incurred between the foundation contractor and rehab
for the steel will be $5-$10 million. He said, "We will say
that that is covered by Errors and Omissions Insurance, we're
going to say that was a mistake -- assuming that this is the way
it comes out ... of the design firm." Then there would be a
request from the insurance company for the money. The insurance
company will probably reject that and thus the department will
probably have to litigate to get the money back.
SENATOR WARD asked who does the State of Alaska have to sue
under that policy in order to recover the $10 million.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied, "The insurance company."
SENATOR WARD further asked, "Who is the insurance company going
to request the state to sue before they pay that?"
COMMISSIONER PERKINS answered, "No one." He likened [the Errors
and Omissions Insurance] to a bond.
SENATOR WARD related his understanding that the $10 million
would be paid out of the Errors and Omissions policy and no one
would be liable for that. He asked if that would be correct.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that he was sure there would be all
kinds of third party suits. He specified that the third party
would be the designer. He indicated agreement with Senator Ward
that the state or the insurance company will have to sue the
designer in order to try to recover the $10 million.
CHAIR COWDERY asked if the designer has enough money to absorb a
$10 million hit.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that he didn't know. However, there
is enough money in the insurance company where the state would
seek reimbursement.
SENATOR WARD asked if the designer is still on the job.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied, "Yes." He explained that if the
designer was taken off the job it would probably result in a
two-year delay. In further response to Senator Ward,
Commissioner Perkins said that the original design was
supposedly designed to withstand a 6.0 earthquake. He informed
the committee that the problem for the project is that there may
be a cash flow problem because receipt of the $10 million may be
delayed for two to three years.
SENATOR WARD pointed out that there would also be a lack of
revenue due to the delay in the project. He asked if that cost
would be entered in the Errors and Omissions Insurance.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that it could be because it is an
impact cost.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued his slide presentation. He
turned to the subject of GARVEE (Grant Anticipation Revenue
Vehicles) bonds. He informed the committee that the department
proposed GARVEE bonds last year because there is about $7.5
billion on the statewide transportation needs list.
Commissioner Perkins related his belief that the state has a lot
of catching up to do due to a lack of infrastructure.
Furthermore, he is concerned with the growing urban congestion
as the [Mat-Su] Valley grows. He pointed out that there are
many large projects that are necessary in Anchorage. If these
programs are funded in one year, it will disrupt the entire
program. Commissioner Perkins then reviewed the advantages to
GARVEE bonds, which [accelerate projects] by leveraging future
federal reimbursements. Also, the interest earnings can serve
as a match because the entire bond will not be spent up-front;
there would be more than enough to pay for the state match.
Therefore, federal funds would be used to generate $450-$50
million of matching funds to replace general fund (GF) funds.
CHAIR COWDERY addressed the ability to leverage future federal
funds. He related his understanding that this administration
would want to spend money that future generations may not have
the access to.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS agreed that could be said. However, he
explained that Alaska and about 30 other states are saying that
"we would sacrifice about 10 percent of our program for the
payment, for the next 15 years to be able to do all these big
projects right now. Other states are doing this." Commissioner
Perkins likened the decision on this to purchasing a car and
deciding whether to cash fund it or do time payments. If one
waits until he/she accumulates enough cash, that person may end
up waiting five years to purchase the car.
Number 1091
SENATOR WARD said, "I agree. And that's assuming everybody
wants the kind of car that the administration is anticipating
buying." He asked if the [department] had received a letter
saying the interest earnings from the sales of the bonds can be
used for the match.
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant, Office of
the Commissioner, Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities, clarified that there is no letter to that effect.
However, he provided the committee with a copy of the FHWA's
Innovative Finance Quarterly, which includes some question and
answers regarding GARVEE bonds. The newsletter addresses the
following question: "Can interest earned on bond proceeds serve
as match?" The answer to that question is "Yes, interest earned
on bond proceeds is considered eligible as non-federal match."
Mr. Poshard clarified that this was the answer given by the
FHWA's Innovative Finance Quarterly newsletter.
SENATOR WARD requested that the committee request that the
commissioner obtain specific language saying the aforementioned
would be allowed because this is a major component.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that "we" would do that. He pointed
out that [the state] will receive interest on this money no
matter what. In his opinion, the interest could be used on
whatever you want.
SENATOR WARD pointed out that he has been requesting this letter
since last summer. He commented that he wasn't sure that a
newsletter would withstand legal [actions] that may be
necessary.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS related his belief that it's a good deal
for the state, particularly because it balances out the program
in that the department would know how much the program would be
tapped for each project. He pointed out that this was not done
for the Whittier tunnel and $80 million had to be funded in one
year, which shorts the rest of the state. Commissioner Perkins
said that the projects that will be provided will be built, it
is a matter of when and how big.
Number 0940
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON inquired as to how much more it would cost
if the bonding route is not taken.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS answered that it would increase at the rate
of inflation. There would be a sizable increase.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued with his presentation. He turned
to the congressional mandate of a .08 BAC (blood alcohol
concentration) limit for driving while intoxicated. If the
state doesn't have a law passed by 2004, the state will lose
$3.6 million and will continue to lose money over time. That
concluded the slide presentation and Commissioner Perkins
offered to answer questions.
Number 0787
CHAIR COWDERY related his understanding that there was going to
be some activity on the Wililow-Hatcher Pass road. He inquired
as to the department's plan for that road.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS explained that the road will be redone and
paved from the Little Susitna River up to Motherlode (ph). He
remarked that this would be a fairly good-sized job. From
Motherlode to Independence Mine will also be paved. From
Independence Mine there is six miles that goes over the mountain
past a storage area, which is a $12 million project. Although
no one lives on that stretch, there is a bed and breakfast at
the end of the stretch that leads on to Willow. From the bed
and breakfast to the pavement is gravel, which will be paved
next summer -- gravel to black. Therefore, there will be a
paved road to Hatcher Pass, save the six miles in the center.
That six miles will not be paved because there is nothing there,
"it's horrible." Commissioner Perkins explained, "The Hatcher
Pass road is on the state highway system and that project will
move along. And when we do a project, you're going to have a
paved road which is extremely important to me in that this is
the bypass for the Parks Highway." When the fire happened, one
couldn't get from Anchorage to Fairbanks without using the
Hatcher Pass road.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS, in response to Chair Cowdery, clarified
that the proposed $3.5 million project for St. Mary is about a
three or four mile stretch. That project will be done this year
under DOT&PF supervision. He acknowledged that force account
could probably be spread from the village doing the road itself
to DOT&PF doing it. He explained that the department will
provide the people to manage the project as well as procure the
equipment. Those working on the project will be on the DOT&PF
payroll and thus will be state employees. In further response
to Chair Cowdery, Commissioner Perkins said that the department
will pay these employees the prevailing wage for Local 71, which
is not Davis-Bacon [wages].
SENATOR WARD returned to the .08 BAC limit and recalled that
President Clinton had said that it would save 500 lives. He
requested that the department report to the committees any
information regarding whether such a change would save 500
lives.
SENATOR WARD then recalled a joint meeting during which the
deputy commissioner discussed the STIP and the [requirement for]
involvement from the community. At that time, Senator Ward
inquired as to the location of the local document requesting the
Tony Knowles Coastal Trail extension in Anchorage. Senator Ward
recalled that the deputy commissioner had said he thought that
the municipality had requested the extension three or four years
ago. However, upon his research, Senator Ward could only find
information that specifically opposed that route. Senator Ward
expressed interest in documentation regarding how that extension
was requested and done.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that research would have to look at
the Anchorage Metropolitan Area Transportation Study (AMATS),
which is not necessarily controlled by DOT&PF. Commissioner
Perkins emphasized that everything constructed in Anchorage must
go through AMATS, which is a federal law. This group, AMATS, is
composed of one DOT&PF representative, one Department of
Environmental Conservation (DEC) representative, two Anchorage
Assembly members, and the Mayor of Anchorage. Commissioner
Perkins said that the [Tony Knowles Trail extension] was an
AMATS project, which came from the city.
SENATOR WARD requested that Commissioner Perkins find the
documentation that requested the extension and present it to the
chairs of the House and Senate Transportation Committees.
Number 0406
SENATOR TAYLOR recalled that Commissioner Perkins just discussed
$7.5 billion that the department wanted in order to obtain
access for purposes of major infrastructure across the state.
There was discussion of using GARVEE bonds to achieve that.
However, Senator Taylor expressed concern with his understanding
that the department has a significant amount of money that was
appropriated and authorized by the legislature for various
projects over the last several years that is still there.
Therefore, Senator Taylor inquired as to the approximate total
of projects funded by the legislature, but not yet bid out by
DOT&PF.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that he didn't have that number. He
highlighted the fact that years ago there was a $2 billion
difference, which some thought was real money. However, "it's
an authorization versus the money," he said.
SENATOR TAYLOR interjected, "The legislature had foolishly
thought that when they passed the budget and passed a bill that
had a project that they had worked their heart out to get in
there, was at some time going to be done." However, after years
of nothing being done, the legislature found out that there was
$2 billion of projects that had not been built and would
probably never be built. That was referred to as the DOT
Cleanup. Senator Taylor asked, "How much is hanging out there
today because we haven't done a DOT Cleanup for some time."
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied that he would provide that number
[to the committees]. He commented that "we are in halfway
decent shape." However, he pointed out that the department has
to go through quite a procedure to close these out with the FHWA
and the FAA, which has led to much time being spent on project
closeouts. Commissioner Perkins informed the committees that in
the last few years the legislature has not added many projects
that the department has not done. However, the department has
received demonstration money from Congress, which the
legislature has authorized but the department has yet to spend.
For instance, there is a $2.5 million appropriation for the West
Douglas Highway. The legislature has authorized the department
to give the money to Juneau, but Juneau hasn't come up with a
project. There is a similar case in Kenai with the Kenai Spur
Highway. Therefore, there will be chunks of money,
demonstration money, that the department hasn't spent. He noted
that the Mat-Su Borough has received [demonstration] money to
complete a dock project. However, the rest of the projects are
waiting on the area that requested the money. He remarked,
"There's a few of them out there."
Number 0078
SENATOR TAYLOR clarified that he is referring to the amount
funded, authorized, by the legislature. Senator Taylor
maintained that there is a significant backlog of work available
for DOT&PF now. Even without a capital budget this year, he
charged that DOT&PF engineers would have a difficult time
catching up. Senator Taylor stressed, "In other words, we can
throw more money at you, but you're not going to get any more
work on the street beyond what we've already authorized, for
some time." If that is the case, then Transportation committee
members need to know that as well as the members of the Finance
committees. Senator Taylor said, "Do you have more funding and
projects laid out than you've got engineers and right-of-way
people and the rest of it to put together? And if that's the
case, why in the world would we ever want to throw another $7.5
billion at [the department] through GARVEE bonds, in the hopes
that you might be able to come up with something ... in another
two, three years."
COMMISSIONER PERKINS agreed to provide that information and
offered to come back and discuss that further. He clarified
that the GARVEE bonds would only be about $200-$300 million. He
said, "The measurement of DOT ..."
TAPE 01-8, SIDE A [House TRA tape]
COMMISSIONER PERKINS continued, "earned back one thin dime to
the federal government, even though the program has doubled."
Commissioner Perkins informed the committee that the engineers
are producing double the amount of projects that [the
department] was three years ago without an increase in the
number of personnel in the department. The department is about
50 engineers short. He indicated that civil engineers can go
anywhere in the state and work now. Commissioner Perkins said,
"Our measurement is how much money did we turn back to the feds
because the only way you commit money is to put it out on
contracts."
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed interest in the fact that the
department is interested in preserving corridors of access in
the Alaska peninsula. Senator Taylor recalled meeting
Commissioner Perkins the first time six years ago when John
Scribner was leaving. After Mr. Scribner being unable to name
any roads that DOT&PF had built in Senator Taylor's district in
the last 20 years, Commissioner Perkins promised him action. At
the time, Senator Taylor requested that the 1.5 miles of road to
connect Kake with Petersburg be built while securing a corridor
of access across Cleveland Peninsula so that the towns of
Wrangell, Petersburg, and Ketchikan could be interconnected.
Senator Taylor asked Commissioner Perkins to report how hard he
is fighting for those corridors of access in his district and
what roads have been built.
Number 0263
COMMISSIONER PERKINS clarified that the road to which Senator
Taylor is referring is a little longer than 1.5 miles.
Furthermore, it is U.S. Forest Service land. The U.S. Forest
Service has a plan to link it up and put that [road] in. There
is no way that [the department] can get around the U.S. Forest
Service here because the connecting roads are not state
highways. "So, we're going to have to assume the whole system
if we do that. Now, I would like to assume the whole system,
but with the cutting of our DOT operating budget over the last
five years, I don't take any new roads," he explained.
Commissioner Perkins stressed that he can't afford to maintain
the roads that he already has. However, Commissioner Perkins
agreed that the road between Kake and Petersburg needs to be
built. With regard to the Cleveland Peninsula, Commissioner
Perkins related his belief that a transportation corridor had
been reserved for that area. However, [the department] elected
not to build it during this stage of the Southeast plan.
SENATOR TAYLOR inquired as to how that was done. He asked
whether the department notified the U.S. Forest Service,
attempted to make a state land selection, or was there a right-
of-way request from the U.S. Forest Service.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS used the Juneau Access road as an example
of keeping a right-of-way. He explained that [the
department/state] has the right to go through there, but under
the Tongass Land Management Plan (TLMP) there was a section of
old growth forest that crossed "our" right-of-way and that was
taken out. There are people watching the U.S. Forest Service
plans and the department is doing its best to reserve these
right-of-ways wherever possible.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that he would [prefer] to take over
more roads and provide better service, but it isn't affordable
until something is done with the department's operating budget.
Currently, the department is using $20 million of federal money
to pay for state maintenance, which is why he can say that the
roads are in good shape. Commissioner Perkins reiterated that
[the department] can't afford to take over new roads. He also
reiterated that he has not accepted a new road in six years "and
I don't intend to as long as my budget stays where it is for
road maintenance," he said.
Number 0538
SENATOR TAYLOR remarked, "And that would include the three miles
or three-and-a-half miles to extend the Juneau road out to
Cascade Point so that your ferry would finally be able to make
two roundtrips a day up to Haines, Skagway instead of one." He
said that Goldbelt has been begging for that, and furthermore he
believes that the authorization to use the federal money is
there. However, this administration continues to fight a road
that would provide twice the access out of Juneau daily, on an
existing ferry. Senator Taylor said that he wasn't sure why
that road hadn't been built.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS answered that the primary reason that road
hasn't been built is because the M/V Malaspina isn't full.
SENATOR TAYLOR stressed that the M/V Malaspina runs 30
additional miles each way because the road hasn't been built.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS reiterated that the M/V Malaspina isn't
full.
SENATOR TAYLOR remarked that perhaps a shorter, regular run
would fill up the vessel.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said, "You're talking about [a] $15 million
or $20 million gamble. You're talking about taking people 40
miles out the road where there are no facilities. At Auke Bay
we have facilities." He pointed out that all the facilities at
Auke Bay would have to be duplicated at Cascade Point, which is
quite a bit of money. Commissioner Perkins related his belief
that with the lack of ridership on the M/V Malaspina, he didn't
believe that would be a good investment.
SENATOR TAYLOR related his understanding that there is no place
in Southeast Alaska where the department intends to build a new
road to interconnect the communities.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS agreed.
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed his frustration in listening to
Commissioner Perkins' presentations over the last six years and
his concern about interconnecting people on the Alaska
Peninsula. He surmised that Commissioner Perkins doesn't want
to connect those in Southeast Alaska.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said, "Well, Senator, that's easy to say,
but when you get into the details of it, it's pretty doggone
hard to do."
Number 0654
SENATOR TAYLOR remarked that [the department] hasn't had any
trouble spending $600-$700 million in the Railbelt to make sure
that those in the [Mat-Su] Valley have a quicker and easier
commute to and from Anchorage. Senator Taylor pondered how fast
the Mat-Su Valley would have grown had the connecting road
operated a toll road once a week. Senator Taylor related his
belief that the money spent on the four lane highway
significantly impacted the growth in the Mat-Su Valley.
Therefore, he felt that decent transportation in the state would
be significant for the growth of other communities in the state.
Senator Taylor expressed frustration with the lack of roads
built by the department during Commissioner Perkins' leadership.
He said, "I am really thankful, Joe, that the U.S. Army didn't
have people like you worrying about how long the study was going
to take before they decided to build a road to Alaska or I'll
guarantee you we'd still be studying it 50 years later and the
Japanese would control the northern end of this state."
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that he took personal offense to that
statement because he spent 22 years in the U.S. Army, including
two tours in Vietnam. He said, "To compare my actions to the
U.S. Army is a very unfair comparison."
SENATOR TAYLOR pointed out that it took the U.S. Army six months
to build the ALCAN Highway, while Commissioner Perkins is still
studying the Southeast plan.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said that there aren't many roads in
Southeast that are very justifiable when one looks at spending
$30-$100 million for 200-300 people.
Number 0797
SENATOR TAYLOR recommended that Commissioner Perkins read a
document that was the cost-benefit analysis for the Bradfield
Road, for which the department has had funding for several
years; funding that it refuses to spend. By using the
department's figures, the Bradfield Road was supposed to cost in
excess of $250-$300 million. However, it was shown, under the
required McDowell Study, to be a 2:1 cost-benefit for that area.
Still, the department refuses to move forward with either the
Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) or the preliminary
engineering, both of which already have the funding.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS acknowledged that $1 million had been
appropriated to the department for the Bradfield Canal Road.
Commissioner Perkins explained that in order to [access] the
Bradfield Canal Road, one would have to take a ferry, which
would require a new ferry and a new ferry terminal at Tyee.
Then, one would get on an eight mile road that proceeds through
a two mile tunnel through a mountain to reach the Canadian
border. Currently, the nearest Canadian road is some 20 miles
away from where the tunnel would end. The Canadians have given
no indication that they are interested in building the road at
all.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS informed the committee that about three
years ago U.S. Senator Murkowski requested that the U.S. Forest
Service perform a feasibility study. That study found that the
road went to nowhere because there is no Canadian connection.
Commissioner Perkins said, "Now I can take that $1 million and I
can have another study done, but I may as well spread it around
the streets of Juneau. I can't do anything for $1 million."
Until the Canadians build connections on there side, then he
believes [the Bradfield Canal Road] to be a waste of money.
Commissioner Perkins charged, "If you have a way and have some
idea of how you think that $1 million should be spent ... that
would be something that would be reasonable and we'd get a
product, I will take your suggestion and we'll certainly
consider spending it." He pointed out that an EIS on this would
cost $3-$5 million. Therefore, he didn't know what to do with
the $1 million.
SENATOR TAYLOR felt Commissioner Perkins' comments to be
interesting in light of the department not having any problem
finding about $7 million to do the Juneau access study, which
was turned down by the Juneau community. Senator Taylor
returned to the $1 million and informed everyone that the $1
million was appropriated by U.S. Senator Stevens and was
directly granted to the state for the purpose of doing an EIS.
Senator Taylor remarked, "No, Joe, I don't expect you to do it
[the EIS]. In fact, my expectations of what you or your
department are going to do are always much higher than what I
ever see done. You don't build roads in Southeast Alaska. You
don't build the road to even connect up little Kake, Alaska."
The decision regarding the road to Kake has been the
department's stance for the last six years. Senator Taylor
pointed out that Commissioner Perkins had already said that the
department isn't going to build any roads to interconnect towns.
Therefore, Senator Taylor questioned why [the legislature]
should become excited about appropriating more money to DOT&PF
when it's not going to be spent. He recalled that over two
years ago, the legislature appropriated money to the department
for ferry terminals and interlinks, but the department didn't
spend it. He related his belief that the aforementioned
appropriation was part of about $30 million that was authorized
over two years ago.
SENATOR WILKEN addressed the issue of force accounting, which
had been discussed at a meeting in December. He expressed the
hope that the department is judicious in the administration of
the force accounting provision in the law.
SENATOR WILKEN then turned to the Fort Wainwright hospital for
which the $200 million Request for Proposals (RFP) came in way
[off the mark] from what the engineers thought. Senator Wilken
noted that a good friend of his was one of the lead engineers on
that hospital. This friend went back in order to determine why
the bids were so far out of range. The answer was that there
was so much work in Alaska and the West Coast that the companies
that bid the project didn't want the bid unless it was at a
premium price. Senator Wilken said, "As I struggle with giving
input as to the level of our capital budget this year, I wonder
if we're not putting more money on top of the $2.6 billion that
we've done in the last two years and if we're not paying a
premium for some of these projects simply because we don't have
the resources through the contractors to build them."
Therefore, he indicated that perhaps another $1.1 billion isn't
appropriate this year but rather this should be allowed to die
down in order to avoid the things that come with an overheated
construction economy.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS pointed out that there is a difference
between road construction, horizontal construction, and vertical
construction. Commissioner Perkins said that he has measured
how many bidders there are and how close they are with regard to
road construction. On every road job, there are five to six
bidders. He specified that the road contractors don't do
hospital work. Commissioner Perkins related his belief that the
Association of General Contractors (AGC) will tell the committee
that there is a considerable amount of work that can be
accomplished by horizontal constructors. With vertical
construction, $200 million would require a large bond with the
core, which means that one is really limited and would be a $200
million facility.
SENATOR WILKEN asked if there is the capacity.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS replied yes, there is the capacity to build
roads. However, he wasn't as [knowledgeable] with vertical
construction.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER remarked that she, too, would be watching
force accounting. She expressed concern that if contractors are
going to be very concerned about a small project in the larger
scheme, it sets a difficult tone for future projects, such as
the gas pipeline. Representative Kapsner turned to an alert
sent out regarding the force account. That alert questioned
what would happen next summer when fishermen are working on
contracts rather than fishing. In the last few years, even when
there were good parent runs, it didn't seem to have a direct
correlation with good fishing returns.
Number 1306
SENATOR WARD requested that Commissioner Perkins provide the
committees with information regarding where road maintenance
money was spent. Senator Ward remarked that he wasn't convinced
that maintenance dollars are being spent correctly.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS agreed to provide that information.
CHAIR KOHRING turned to DOT&PF's current budget proposal for 50
percent matching dollars for capital projects at municipal
airports. He noticed that there is a request that certain
communities not be included in this 50 percent match. Those
exempted communities include Palmer, Wasilla, Juneau, Kenai,
Soldotna, and Merrill Field in Anchorage. Chair Kohring
acknowledged that the proposal indicates that the exemption is
because these communities are on the road system/major highway
network. However, there are other communities on that network
that aren't included on the list, such as Homer, Valdez, and
Seward.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS noted that [the proposal] was done two
years ago, when the department was in quite a conversation with
the legislature regarding whether there would be a match.
Commissioner Perkins said, "As far as I'm concerned, the match
we're talking about is the match for my projects ... the state-
owned aviation projects, the state-owned highways, and these
matches." Over the years, it has been the custom that the
aviation match included the match for non state-owned airports.
Therefore, when cutting the DOT match was discussed, the
department cut providing the match for these other airports.
The department gave a year's notice so there wouldn't be a
problem. Commissioner Perkins said that he wasn't opposed to
the legislature providing the match for these other airports,
but he didn't want it to come out of his match, which is for
state-owned facilities.
Number 1497
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the governor will be putting forth any
legislation regarding landing fees. Or, is the department
recommending any such legislation to the governor? He recalled
that when the state took over the Sitka Airport, which had
charged landing fees, it lost $300,000-$400,000 in state revenue
and took up a good portion of the department's maintenance
budget for Southeast Alaska that year. Senator Taylor asked,
"Are you going to do anything about that?" He recalled that a
court decision caused the problem.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS clarified that this would not include
Anchorage and Fairbanks because they charge landing fees. He
recalled that years ago the legislature offered the choice of
charging a landing fee or a fuel flowage fee and the statute
says that both can't be collected. The fuel flowage fee was
chosen and thus, statutorily, landing fees can't be charged.
When Sitka had the airport, the city didn't fall under this
statute and thus Sitka could charge and collect the landing fee
and the state could charge and collect the fuel flowage fee.
When Sitka decided it didn't want to operate the airport anymore
and gave it to the state, $300,000-$400,000 [in collection of
the landing fee] was lost. Commissioner Perkins said that
although the department hasn't proposed any legislation, he
would give it some thought.
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed the hope that the department would give
some thought to proposing legislation in this area because of
the new FAA regulations. Furthermore, the lengthening of the
runways will require funding and he felt that it would require
revenue from sources other than the state.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS corrected his former statement and said
that apparently, the legislation not allowing the landing fee to
be charged by the state sunsetted last January. Therefore, the
department could deal with this through regulations.
KURT PARKAN, Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, confirmed that
the fee sunsetted last January and there has been discussion
regarding the possibility of implementing landing fees at rural
airports. The internal discussion regarding which airports that
would impact hasn't concluded.
SENATOR TAYLOR expressed his disbelief that the department has
had such a large revenue source available since January, but
hasn't been able to promulgate any regulations for it. This
could amount to several millions of dollars that would offset
the maintenance on these airports.
MR. PARKAN agreed that it would be a revenue source. However,
he pointed out that it would be very controversial. This isn't
going to be an easy task.
SENATOR TAYLOR pointed out that fuel taxes are very
controversial, yet the governor proposed those a few years ago.
He asked if the governor or the department will be putting in a
request for an increase on gasoline fuel taxes.
MR. PARKAN answered that "we" aren't proposing that.
SENATOR TAYLOR recalled that new revenue sources was part of the
State of the State address. He asked if there are any other
road taxes or fees that are being contemplated by the governor
or the department.
COMMISSIONER PERKINS said, "We are not looking at gas taxes."
He recalled that the legislation for a gas tax couldn't even get
a hearing last time.
SENATOR TAYLOR remarked that he was looking for a way to help
the department with the maintenance budget.
REPRESENTATIVE KAPSNER thanked Commissioner Perkins and his
competent staff for the presentation.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committees, the joint
meeting of the House and Senate Transportation Committees was
adjourned at 3:45 p.m.
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